The Nuclear Families Evangelist
The Nuclear Families Evangelist
Blended Families and Financial Infidelity
In this episode of the ‘Nuclear Families Evangelist’ (A podcast that debunks the mythologies and biology by exploring the dynamics and relationships in blended families), host Traci Dority-Shanklin (Managing Partner at Sisu Partners) talks with guests Heather Hetchler, a columnist at Stepmom Magazine, a wife, a mom, stepmom, a thought leader and a coach for blended families with learning to step at e-learning platform for blended families.
The second guest is Ed Vargo, who has over 20 years of experience in the Financial Services industry and is the Founder of Burning River Advisory Group (A Wealth Management Firm that specializes in working with women experiencing significant life events, divorce, retirement, widowhood, etc.). Ed is also the founder of ‘EnlightenHer’ (A new women’s first financial education and coaching company).
Both the guests explain what financial infidelity is, and share their tips for blended families learning to communicate honestly and effectively about finances.
Three Key Points
1. Heather says, financial infidelity explains the pain that a stepmom might feel if she realizes that her husband's been giving money to his kids or his ex and not telling her. She's already maybe feeling a little bit like an outsider. She’d encourage women to stop to acknowledge what may be going on, but not go and accuse their husbands like they’ve been financially cheating on them because we do have to sometimes stop. It doesn't make it right. But sometimes, we're all a product of our childhood of what we've been through, and many times men and we're just talking about this in the context of stepmoms and husbands but who do sometimes make choices to keep the peace.
2. ED mentions that it’s not like they haven't made money but they haven't sat down together. They've just lived their life, and next year they wake up and it's like, “Oh, I'm on the doorstep of retirement”. That's why we had this big retirement crisis because typically, we find people that make enough money, they're just not connected enough to their money to be able to good with it and so, this structure allows them to be an accountability partner for each other.
3. Ed advice to a blended family so they stay financially present. It's just a reiteration of staying connected, like starting with our values, understanding what's important to us, and then making sure we're putting that in front of ourselves in front of us on a regular basis.
Resources Mentioned
· Heather Hetchler: Instagram Twitter
· ED Vargo: EnlightenHer (Website)
Contact:
Traci Dority-Shanklin: LinkedIn Twitter Facebook
traci@sisupartnersllc.com
website: www.nuclear-families.com
Heather Hetchler And Ed Vargo return to the podcast. Heather is a columnist at Stepmom Magazine. A wife, a mom, a step-mom and a thought leader and coach for blended families with Learning 2 Step, an e-learning platform. Ed Vargo is the founder of Burning River Advisory Group a boutique wealth management firms, specializing in working with women, experiencing significant life events, divorce, retirement, and widowhood. He has over 20 years of experience in the financial services industry and is the founder of EnlightenedHer a new women, first financial education and coaching company. We are jumping back into our conversation about financial infidelity, Heather and ed. Explain what financial infidelity is and share their tips for blended families, learning to communicate honestly and effectively about finances. Let's get into it. So getting back to the financial infidelity, as I mentioned, I have firsthand experience on both as a child and, in my marriage. And, I think that it's, for me, it was, in both cases, my dad giving me something that he didn't tell my stepmother and then stepping into an awkward situation when it became apparent. I just let the cat out of the bag. and then also in my marriage where my husband did, what you had said is that he to keep the peace gave money to my stepdaughter, did not share that with me. And, it was a big deal. This particular incident. It was a really, it was a moment where we had to navigate this break in trust in our partnership and had to go back to some of the basics. And we had to acknowledge that we had brought some money baggage into our marriage. I'm with my husband. I think his infidelity was rooted in his daddy guilt and mine was really, a societal or a family pre-programming that I brought. So I grew up in a home where the men were in charge of money, regardless of who made the money. even when my mom was working, the financial control was relinquished to her husband. So I'm wondering if financial infidelity is something that either of you have dealt with personally? If you're willing to share.
Ed Vargo:I will say not really on my end, have I dealt with it personally? I'm a financial advisor, so I have a little bit of a leg up in that regard. I've seen a lot of it. Certainly as an advisor, but also just in, family and friends, you hear it all the time. And it's, I think we should probably define financial infidelity for a then yeah, dig into it a little bit further. it's really not complicated. It's simply when a person hides or withholds money-related issues and decisions from their partner. You're basically not telling your partner something about money typically is what happens. And it's not as obvious, like when we have physical cheating, the rules of engagement are pretty clear. What's acceptable. What's not acceptable. But when it comes to money or financial infidelity, it's not obvious it's ambiguous because we don't know there is no set line for what's acceptable and not acceptable when it comes to spending money. So that's one of the first barriers is that if you're both not on the same page, in terms of what is proper behavior, it's very easy to deviate into, improper behavior without even knowing. Or, you live in that ambiguous world where you kind of alive think that this probably isn't okay, but it's not been discussed. So you can hide behind that veil of I didn't know. I didn't know that wasn't okay. that it creates strife in the relationship. So I think one of the first things is to identify as get on the same page when it comes to money, what's an appropriate and acceptable use of money in the context of our lives. Given that aside, clearly there are areas and you've outlined a couple of them already where you know, that's wrong. that this isn't the best way to handle our money situations. And I'm doing something to maybe avoid a bigger problem. but they don't have to be big issues. It could be as simple as like A new golf club this weekend. And I don't tell the wife, Or you go out and you pick up drinks for your friends or your buddies you're out. And that's not really appropriate use of dollars, but you don't share that. So those are relatively minor things. And then you have the major, big ones, those true breaches of trust. And, and that's why I talked about earlier, like a lot of money issues. Aren't really money issues. They're really bigger values issues. Like I did. I made a decision that broke our trust and money just happened to be the conduit for that breach of trust. So it happens all the time. And it's one of those things. I don't know if people think of it in terms of infidelity. Cause that's a very powerful word, but I think if we started thinking more along those lines, it might foster more communication and help avoid some of these problems before they ever occurred.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:Yeah. I think it's a good word. and I think, cause I think it really did. at the time that I was dealing with it in my marriage, I didn't really, I would not have coined it that way, but that's what it felt like. It felt really that like that bond, there was a break in that trust that I didn't see coming. And, it was, so it has to feel a lot like infidelity feels, in the, with the other definition of the word infidelity. So what are ways that we can protect ourselves and our nuclear families from financial infidelity? Is there, a series of activities that blended families can do to avoid this financial cheating?
Heather Hetchler:I think one thing, one thing that my husband and I agreed to it from the very beginning, and it was, we have a dollar amount that we check with each other before we spend it. So we have an unspoken budget, if he's out and, he sees a lawn mower and he wants to get it or something like that, like we'll check in with each other. Hey, I saw this, I want to get this. And so clearly if we're checking on that, we have that alignment and I think too, I do think we have to, the reason I think. financial infidelity is a really wise word to explain it because it is a broken trust and it does hurt. So it explains the pain that, a step-mom might feel as she realizes that her husband's been giving money to his kids or his ex and not telling her. It feels she's already maybe feeling a little bit like an outsider. I think if you're listening to this podcast too, I want to just encourage you if you're listening to this and you're like, oh my gosh, that's what's going on with me. my husband has been financially cheating on me. It is very easy to begin to spiral with that. That feels deep. And that word is very, it's a tender and deep word for us. So I think I'd encourage women to stop, to acknowledge what may be going on, but to not go and, accuse their husband. You've been financially cheating on me. How dare you? because I think we do have to sometimes stop it. Doesn't make it right. But sometimes. we're all a product of our childhood of what we've been through and many times men, and we're just talking about this in the context of stepmoms and husbands, but, do sometimes make choices to keep the peace. So he most likely is not thinking, oh, I'm cheating on my wife financially. Oh, I'm breaking trust. Oh, I don't value her. That might be how the stepmother feels. He's like, you know what? I've got the extra money. If it just keeps my ex happy, it'll keep my home happy. It'll keep my wife happy. He's not thinking about it in the same context that it's feeling for the woman. And so I never want to invalidate how difficult that must feel to be on the receiving end of that. But to also, calm down, process it and talk to your spouse. When you can talk a little bit more unemotionally about it and share with them how it feels to you.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:It's wise advice. fortunately in my case, I was able to, intuitively know that I actually just was like, I'm going to go out before I say anything I need a time out for a few hours to figure out what this conversation needs to look like. Because if I say something now I will probably regret it. Yeah. Do you counsel clients on how to mend from a financial infidelity?
Heather Hetchler:We do as a part of EnlightenedHer. and I can talk more on this. We have a program for money mentors, so I wanted to money mentors. So if you go to lighten her such fresh start, you can sign up for a free clarity call with us. And it's really, you know, it looks a little bit different for every woman because I'll sit and I'll listen to a woman. I'll hear where she is. I'll hear, where her money mindset is, what she's struggling with. And then I'm able to put together a roadmap and coach her through that. So if there is a woman struggling with financial infidelity, wanting to maybe understand her finances, better realizes that maybe she's always been hands-off, I would love to work with her and help coach her through that.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:I assume this is tricky, but should blended families keep their finances separate? I mean, especially if there's child support for a custodial parent involved.
Ed Vargo:And I think this depends. Now you have to find what makes the most sense for you as a family. But I don't think there's any problem with it, but I wouldn't keep, I don't think this is an all or nothing type of question either. What seems to me works best particularly with blended families or if you're marrying later in life, You've had your, you have your own money, you've done things your own way for so long. That's part of your independence. That's part of your autonomy, right? And so when you come together and you get married and traditionally it used to be, you got married much earlier you're you had nothing together, came into it together. So you just put all of your, nothingness, in one pot and it worked fine. And you built it over time. we're not coming into these relationships with substantial wealth in some cases. So your own income and in blended families, that's even more because you have these other complicating factors. So what I think makes sense, if you had pick one way to go, I think. Having individual accounts that you deposit a certain amount of money into per pay or per month as an example. And then you have a main joint checking account for everything else. So all of your household bills, the marital items get paid out of that account. And this is just a framework to think about, but let's say you have your paychecks directly deposited into the joint account, and then you have your two individual accounts and then maybe a move out. I don't know, 500 bucks a month into each of those accounts on the first of the month has done automatically. That's your money. Do whatever you want with it. I don't have to justify my spending. If I want to blow it all on a golf club or dining out, or just hoard my money, I can do whatever I want. It's mine. So that gives me my sense of autonomy, my sense of independence. And I don't feel like I've got to check in with my spouse to go spend money. Cause nobody wants to feel that way. Especially if you, it doesn't matter if you make the money or not. No one wants to be beholden to the other person at the same time, the money in the joint account. I know that money's being used for our marital needs. So paying the mortgage, taking care of the kids, know all the other stuff that comes with it. And then we can both see what happens on that account. And that's very important because one of the problems with women giving up their financial power to men is they become disconnected from the money. And then that's when there's that disconnect, there's no dialogue when there's no dialogue, mistakes happen or bad things happen. just all kinds of bad stuff can happen, whether it's intentional or not. So I think a nice, happy medium is to do what I just said. each an individual account hands-off for the other party. And then we have this joint account where we can make decisions and come together on. And then what I would also, I take that a step further is I don't think we spend enough time looking at our money on a regular basis. Like I look, obviously I'm different because I'm a financial advisor and I'm completely comfortable in this world, but I'm looking at my stuff all the time, like continuously. Okay. That's an extreme, I wouldn't recommend that. But if you're out there, doing this, in conjunction with your partner, I would once a week just do a quick check-in at least once a month. it's that important? I think that's part of the problem. we don't. Place enough emphasis on managing our cashflow. We're really good at making money. I find people are good at going to work, working hard, being smart, doing those types of things. And then the money just ends up in their account. It's like in and out, they don't think that much about it. And then a bunch of wasteful spending happens. Wasteful in the sense that it's not going to the most meaningful things in their lives. And they wake up one day and they're like, we haven't saved hardly anything for college. Heather and I were talking about that this morning. And we're like, there's so many people that are waking up. They're a year out from college and you're like, oh my God, it's here. And I haven't done anything. And it's not like they haven't made money, haven't sat down together. They've just lived their life. And next thing they wake up and it's oh, I'm on the doorstep of retirement. And that's why we had this big retirement crisis. Because people make typically we find people are making enough money. They're just not in connection, connected enough to their money to be able to do good with it. And so this structure allows you because it allows you to be an accountability partner for each other.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:I think it's good advice to, to have that discussion to have an at least a minimum agreement, in advance of what your plans are for the money, whether it be for saving for the college education or retirement. I think it's critical. what is the most crucial advice you would say to a blended family? So they stay financially present. Was that meeting monthly?
Ed Vargo:Yeah, it really, I think it's just a reiteration of staying connected, like starting with. Your value is understanding what's important to you and then making sure you're putting that in front of yourself, in front of you on a regular basis, just check-ins now. So sometimes when we talk about these things, it feels immense. It feels like it's a ton of work. oh my God, there's no way I would ever do that. It sounds like so much work. I hate this money stuff. It's really not. If you just and take a step back and really assess, I think getting on the same page with our values, we should be doing that anyway, forget money right our lives. We be there and understand. What's really important to us. If we want to set ourselves up for this happy, healthy life, right? So start with our values and all our money is just a conduit, right? It's just, it's inert. It doesn't do anything until we decide where we want to apply it. And so it just makes sense that if our most important thing, the most important things in our lives are X, Y, and Z, wouldn't. We not want to align our money with X, Y, and Z. Okay, so the answer would be yes, most people won't disagree with that. And then the third question is, will, are we actually doing that? And that's where it breaks down the most we make money, we spend it and then it may not half of it. Most of it may not be going towards the most important things in our lives. And if we only took a moment to step back and reassess and ask each other, not in a critical way, but in a, in a loving and supportive way, are we really using our money in a way that's best for us? Are we doing what we intended to do? And that's not that hard, right? It just takes a little bit of time, take some focus. And we just have to take the focus off of say money, because again, people don't want to spend, don't like to think about being money. But that's not what this is. This is values focused with money as a conduit to reach and those values. And if we frame it that way, I think more people would actively step into their money life and stay, get involved and stay involved because it's not the superficial, I'm going after money kind of thing.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:100% agree.
Heather Hetchler:And I think too, a lot of women have been conditioned to not talk about money, right? So if that isn't a comfortable topic for you, then I encourage you to visit us, EnlightenHer.com to get some help because it is imperative. And the one thing I would add to Ed's advice is to be forward-thinking. So even if you get married and your kids are little, you need to have that conversation about college savings. You need to have that conversation about, because in my experience, too, in working with blended families, especially when both people come in with children, one is typically saved and one hasn't or one has seen. A certain amount and the other person wants to catch up or there's a lot of friction between, it's not fair. We hear that fair theme all the time that you've saved$10,000 per kid and I've saved nothing. you both came into this with a different mindset and a different savings. And so how are you going to move forward? Maybe now that you're married, you'll open one for the children that never had one, and you'll just contribute the same amount every year, or maybe you'll agree to put extra in those other kids' accounts. But that can also be complex too, because some adults that get remarried have an ex that's also saving and some don't. So the spouse that has an ex not wants to contribute more. And so I really recommend to maybe getting a third party involved in that conversation to help it stay less emotional and more focused on. The contributions and the savings and what really works moving forward on that. And I know that we're talking about money here, but I do recommend that everybody visit and have a will, because I can't tell you how many times I've worked, where they don't have a will. And one person dies. Everything goes to the step parent. They don't know if they're going to have enough money to live. They don't give anything to the biological children. And it causes a lot of consternation and issues that could have been avoided if they had thought about that. And planned ahead.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:Yes, financial planning 1 0 1. Get your will. If, I mean anyone, honestly, if you have children, you need to have a will period. it's critical, unless you guys have something to add, I want to switch gears. And, I like to ask our guests a hot seat question. And my goal is just to have you share something about yourself that may have, have within it, a life lesson, it can relate to blended families, or it can be whatever inspires you. So what is one fear you'd like to conquer?
Ed Vargo:I'll go. I don't know if I have a, I guess my mind doesn't operate from that sort of lens. I don't have this fear of things in general. I think about my girls. And so if I think if I'm concerned about anything. It's girls and their trajectory in life. I try to do, me and my wife, we try to do the best we can to prepare them for what's to come, Just instill as much knowledge and understanding as I can, and then hope that all works out. They make good decisions in the moment. Most of their life is going to be lived outside the confines of mom and dad. And as a financial advisor, I think about what could get in the way of that. And tying with, sort of life lessons like, cause my upbringing was very different from my kids. I grew up very poor inner city Cleveland, right? My parents divorced when I was very young, very bad breakup in the sense that my mom had to give up custody of us kids because she wasn't financially able to take care of us. So people think about, and he asked some times, why are you so focused on working with women? I think a big part of that is, my mom had to give up custody of her kids. Because of the money situation, which is a tragedy really, no person, mother or otherwise she'd have to give up custody of their kids because of, economics, but that's exactly what happened, And so trying to do everything I can with my girls to prevent them being in a vulnerable position, not just financially, but otherwise, but money is a big part of that, And so when it comes to getting them educated on money and in control of their own money, they know they're going to be able to fall back on that. Right. so I'm not concerned about their trajectory financially and how that affects their life, if they're single. What I'm concerned about is when they get involved with their significant other, and now it gets more complicated, right? Because, and it should get more complicated because they don't get to make those decisions on their own, nor should they, they have to share decision-making in their financial life. And I don't want them to revert to what a lot of other women unfortunately do is this is maybe a societal push or just that's the way they think about it or just interest. And they're like, oh, my boyfriend, my spouse, they liked this money stuff, so I'll turn it over to them. That's a fear of mine that they're going to abdicate their responsibility, their authority, whatever, and just turn it over to their husbands. And I'm trying everything I can to help them, not, you don't have to rule the kingdom, right? You can share, this responsibility, but you just can't give it up entirely. And it's a lot easier said than done like most things, because what happens in relationships, if you start having a family and things get busy, division of labor works and money, but money should not be part of that division of labor. It needs to be equally shared across the boards. there is a fear out there, I guess I'm concerned that my girls are just going to lose their sense of independence and control because of, their lack of understanding or wherewithal on the financial side.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:Ed I think this is the subject of another conversation. but five girls.,
Ed Vargo:That's a lot of girls.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:And you have five chances to make sure you stay into the drama.
Ed Vargo:And I keep inserting myself into it, so I'm my own worst enemy, I think. But, but there it's fun. It's great to see them grow up. I want them to be strong, independent, formidable, young women, and but most of your life is going to be outside of the confines of mom and dad. we're getting to the stage now we're really thinking about like becoming empty nesters and that's a whole different way of looking at the world. So we'll see, it's been fun.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:Heather, do you have one?
Heather Hetchler:four years ago I was diagnosed with cancer and that really just caused a trajectory of change in how I thought about things. And I realized life really is short and tomorrow isn't promised. And so I really went on a journey to address fears. And at first I was addressing physical fears, I went and zip lining. I'm afraid of Heights. I walked through. A lavender fields filled with bees. I don't like bees. I swam with lemon sharks. I just was like, you know what I'm not going to be afraid anymore. But I realized that those fears are a lot easier to conquer then emotional fears. And I, I believe that at the core, we all have a core fear. Typically it's being abandoned. being unknown, being unloved, being left, failing. And for me, my core fear is being unknown. So if people wrongly judge me, like if they don't get to know my heart and they falsely accused me of something and in the past, I used to defend myself and get into, especially in the blended family context. But I have learned to let go of that, to learn that how other people choose to see me as their choice and not my truth. And there's a freedom in that. And I think that I'm always going to be battling that fear because it was formed in my childhood and it's woven into the fabric of who I am. But now when I start to feel myself needing to defend or engage. I know what I'm dealing with, and it's been much easier to let go of that. My face had been part of that, but just really understanding those truths. But I think that fear is always going to be there, but I'm much better at, walking through it. And I had been for the first 47 years of my life.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:Yeah, I agree with that. And when I moved, I found a box of journals and in it, I would just spot check the journals. And I will tell you that my stuff is the same stuff from 20 years ago to today. It's just the way in which I processed that stuff that has changed. but you're right. These core fears that we have do follow us, they just can reduce, over time and with just experience. And, I'm glad that you got through many of your fears and, I hope that your health is good. and I know that you are being seen and you're being seen in a way that is positively impacting step-families and step-mom's. So I applaud what you're doing. Is there anything else that either of you would like to add that maybe I missed?
Heather Hetchler:I just think for the women listening, sometimes we're so culturally, we listen to something, we read a book or we hear a podcast and we start beating ourselves up because we haven't been doing it. Maybe we haven't been good with our money. Maybe we have, maybe we've been committing financial infidelity on our husband. Maybe we haven't been teaching our kids the right things. You can start today, blame and shame and guilt don't change anything, but taking action does. And and I really have heart to work with women, in this area. So I really invite you to visit us@enlightenher.com and, to get a coaching call, to get some help, because there's no shame, you need to just move forward. And so I just want to encourage women that are listening to this, that maybe fear paying their bills or fear, having financial. If you have a fear of finances, then it's time to overcome those fears and we can help you do that.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:That's awesome. How can our listeners find you if they have questions or want to get in touch about coaching?
Heather Hetchler:So they can visit us@enlightenedher.com. So it's E N L I G H T E N H E r.com backslash fresh start. That's where you can sign up, you fill out a couple of questions. So we know where you are. we'll set up a free coaching call and really our goal is to listen, to hear where you are and where you want to go, and then to help put a roadmap together to get you there. But there's also a ton of resources articles on the website that you can just get lost in read. You'll find yourself in those articles. you'll feel a comfort. You'll feel like you're coming home. You'll know that you're not alone in your financial struggles.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:That's awesome. Ed, is there anything you'd like to add?
Ed Vargo:I would just reiterate what, Heather said. I think the hardest part is getting started and we create all sorts of reasons to not do so, you know, we talk ourselves out of it. But, I think that's the step that, just start forward, don't put too much pressure on yourself and take that first step forward. Whether no matter where you are in this continuum, There's, knowledge is certainly power in this space. And we hear that all the time and it's comes, it goes in one ear, it comes out the other. But, if you're having some issues with your financial life, we find that most people have some they've identified that they have some sort of problem area or something that's not working quite right. But then it just dies there, And that's, it's a tragedy, right? Cause you recognize that there's something wrong or not quite right. And yet we don't do anything to fix it. So that's that cognitive dissonance where we actively, or in this case, inactively, aren't taking action to fix a problem that we know exists and it's not going away. So this retirement crisis or college issues that are coming up. no. One's going to come in and solve those problems for us. that's the thing, the government's not going to do it. Your company's not going to do it. I wouldn't rely on anybody else to try and fix, something that's wrong in my life. So I would just take that small step forward. It could be with EnlightenHer, check it out. There's plenty of resources out there. Just do something and then take that first step. And then that'll lead you to your next step. And if you just keep focusing on one step at a time, you don't, it's not this big, gigantic thing. You've got a problem you have to solve. You're just taking these little steps and it's moving your closer and closer each step of the way.
Traci Dority-Shanklin:And I would add you have time. not to rush it. If there's not a big rush here. I think it's really good advice. One step at a time. There is no, like you don't have to, hunker down in your office for five days. You can take small action will make a big difference. I thank you both for joining me on the Nuclear Families Evangelist.
Ed Vargo:Yeah, thanks for having.
Heather Hetchler:Thank you.